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How One Patent Could Take Down One Comedian

Filed by KOSU News in Business.
June 5, 2013

The comedian in question is Marc Maron. He does a popular podcast, called WTF, out of his garage in California. It’s an interview show, with other comedians and artists. Maron recently found an extraordinary letter in his mailbox. This letter said, basically, that by doing his podcast, out of his garage, he was violating a technology patent. His podcast was, according to the letter, “illegal.”

“…They sent a copy of the patent with this letter,” Maron says. “Which looks like a large bunch of legal gibberish.”

When Marc Maron started up his podcast– he didn’t think he was stealing anyone’s invention. He’s a comedian. He’d never seen a patent before.

A couple other podcasters have received similar letters like this– Jesse Thorn, host of the public radio show Bullseye, for one. NBC, CBS, the Adam Carolla show, have all been sued.

The person behind these letters and lawsuits is Jim Logan. Jim Logan claims to have invented podcasting, with a company called Personal Audio, back in the mid-nineties. He has a patent that he claims covers podcasting, that’s been recently updated, but dates back to October 2nd, 1996. That means, according to the letter his company sent out, every time someone creates a podcast– and distributes it– that person owes his company money.

Jim Logan says, back in the mid-nineties, he imagined a personal audio device that could “interact with the internet and your preferences to pull down, to your personal player, all the personal stuff you wanted to listen to. “

“The idea of downloading playlists to your audio player and podcasts are how the world has gotten around to implementing those ideas,” says Logan.

Jim Logan tried to build an mp3 player and bring it to market. It didn’t work ou, but he did manage to put out a much lower tech version of what he feels is the same idea. He brought the manifestation of this idea to our interview. It was a stack of cassette tapes. The idea was, you’d be able to pick from a selection of newspaper and magazine articles, and his company would send you a tape of those articles being read out loud.

The tapes didn’t get much traction. And over the next ten years, Logan says, he kind of forgot about these old audio patents. Until 2007, that’s when, as he tells it, his patent attorney, Charlie Call, was working on a project that involved iTunes. “I wasn’t a big music listener and Charlie Call wasn’t either,” Logan says. “We didn’t own iPods. We didn’t use iTunes, so it was all kind of foreign to us.” When Call did discover iTunes,” Logan says, he realized that our patent “was being infringed by iTunes.”

Logan’s company, Personal Audio, sued Apple, over the ability to create a playlist. The jury sided with Personal Audio, and awarded them a 8.5 million dollar payout. Apple appealed, Personal Audio appealed back, and there was a settlement of some kind. The results are not public.

In the eyes of the law, it doesn’t matter that Logan’s company did not create iTunes or the iPod. “This is the road map,” his licensing guy, Richard Baker, says. “That would tell someone how to do podcasting, how to do mp3 players.” Even if the guy who had invented iTunes never read Logan’s patent, publicly available, on the U.S. Patent website, “that does not matter,” Logan says.

Right now that’s how the system works, and a lot of people think, this is a big problem. The fact that somebody like Jim Logan could even get a patent this broad, some say, means that the patent system is not working like it’s supposed to. Rather than encouraging more innovation– it’s hurting it. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group, is planning to challenge the patent at the patent office. They claim the patent is too broad, and too obvious.

To Jim Logan, when he uses patents to make back money he lost on his failed business that’s a good thing. He says having a patent makes it safer for people like him to try and start their next new idea.

The people he’s threatening to sue, of course, don’t see it that way.

“I’m not a tech company,” Marc Maron says. “I’m a guy who turns on his computer and does his thing!”

Yesterday, in President Obama’s call for reform of the patent system, he may have allied himself with Maron’s side. He specifically called for more protection for what he calls “end-users of products containing patented technology.” People who aren’t even trying to make a new product– just turning on their computers, for example, and doing their thing. [Copyright 2013 NPR]

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